Int: Describe how you got involved with the 1984 Badfinger tour as part
of a British Invasion package with Gerry & The Pacemakers, Hermans
Hermits, The Troggs, and Billy J. Kramer. Did you have any reservations
to do it with Tommy deceased?
BJ: Well, our ex tour manager Ray Reneri, who had become an old mate,
contacted me, asking if I would do another Badfinger tour. I wasn't at
all sure - after all the difficulties, the lawsuits, and Tom's
subsequent death. But eventually, I thought "It's what I do, so OK..."
Ray suggested that we could get Joey involved. Of course, Joey had
already been running his version of Badfinger in competition with ours
(Tom, Mike and me) in 1982 and 1983. Joining forces did seem logical, so
I OKed Ray to open talks with him.
Int: Describe how you felt about Al Wodtke and his involvement.
BJ: I'd got to know Al pretty well during my previous stay in
Minneapolis. He had always been into the British music scene,
particularly Badfinger. We'd become good friends and he was easy to get
along with. His usual instrument was lead guitar, but I knew he'd do a
good job on bass. So I was very happy to have him along.
Int: Describe the tour as it went along, and how it wound down.
BJ: It was quite a big bill, with us, Gerry, Billy J. Kramer, the Troggs
and the Hermits. We always received a lot of nice comments from the
other groups about our harmonies and songs, so I knew we were doing OK.
For the first few weeks everything was fine, plenty of gigs etc., but
during the final few weeks the business side started to go wrong
(nothing new there though!). What it amounted to was that the gigs at
the end hadn't been firmed up, and it was too late to get more in. The
money started to dry up, and the bands were being owed money from gigs
already played. There was a growing rebellion. It was hard to go on
stage and do a good show when you knew you weren't going to see the
money. And we never did get all that we were owed, but like I said,
that's par for the course.
Int: Tell us about your overall interactions with Joey Molland on the
tour.
BJ: I got on great with Joe in some ways. Pretty much the same sense of
humour. Musically, even though it had been 10 years since we'd played
together, we slotted back perfectly. He's a talented guy and had some
good tunes. As a band, we worked well, and always got a good reaction,
but I can't pretend that things always went smoothly behind the scenes.
He got his personal business manager at the time to handle the band's
business. Inevitably, this meant that Joey became the figurehead. I
think it's fair to say that he had the dominant personality, and saw
himself as the leader. If things weren't how he thought they should be,
he could be very confrontational; intimidating even. I think life's too
short for prolonged arguments, so I would always play them down.
Although I had been pretty organisational on previous tours with Tommy,
I do like to work on a democratic basis. (Mike was pretty laid back at
that time.)
Int: What did Joey tell you in regard to his feelings on Pete Ham?
BJ: Even before Joey left in '74, the guys in the band had had their
run-ins with each other. Exactly why Pete and Joe weren't the closest of
people I wouldn't like to say, but Pete had talked about his
frustrations, and Joey admitted that "me and the other guy really didn't
get on". To be honest, I think that the interview that Mike did about a
year ago with Sean Siever answers that pretty fully already, and
certainly backs up everything that I have ever been led to understand
about Pete and Joey's relationship. Joey didn't express any sadness to
me over Pete's death - he didn't seem able to understand Pete's
motivation at all.
Int: What did you feel Joey's attitude was towards Tommy?
BJ: I didn't often talk about it with Joe, as I knew that we had
different feelings about it. They had always had a closeness - that
Liverpool thing, you know, same tribe. The beginning of the troubles
between them began after Joey left and Pete died. The artistic respect
for Tommy was there, I'm sure, but there wasn't much love lost between
them towards the end. As we all know, money can cause great problems
between people. I know that Joe has expressed that Tommy had "lost his
marbles" during the last few years - and the "Goodfinger" idea proved
it. I suppose a lot of people may have thought the same thing, but what
they may not realise is that the name was not our suggestion; our idea
was "The Angles". We were not given the choice.
Int: Explain why you didn't go on with a follow-up Badfinger, touring
with Joey after the British Invasion touring.
BJ: We finished the 1984 tour on good terms and said that we'd keep in
touch and plan the next thing. We did keep in touch, but it seemed that
things were taking a long time. In fact, a tour was planned for March
1985 onwards, but then Joey decided against it, for whatever reason.
Months and months were going by. By July, there was still no work. I was
concerned; unlike Joe or Mike, I didn't have any potential royalties,
and needed to work. I have refrained from making any comment over all
these years, but it has annoyed me when people say they have heard that
I made unreasonable demands for all kinds of money. Anyone who knows me
would tell you that that is simply not in my nature. The truth of the
matter is that Joey rang me in August 1985, outlining the way that he
wanted Badfinger to continue. He had discontinued the usual block tour
approach, and had already begun to book gigs intermittently. He told me
that I would have to move to the U.S. to live. I told him that this
would be a major problem for me. I had a young family, and had just
taken out a loan on a new house in England. Of course I wanted to
continue in the band so I asked how much we would be earning, to make
sure that it was viable. Joey mentioned a figure that was way below our
normal earnings, and said that it was up to me whether I was going to
come or not. It was impossible. I was between a rock and a hard place. I
sat down and wrote Joey a letter: "'Why did you have to change our
normal pattern of touring? Why is the money so low? Can't you see that
you are making it impossible for me?" I ended up the letter by saying:
"Many times before, you have said that you couldn't work with the band.
Now I am forced to say that to you, but I hope, and expect, that you
will include me in any future plans that may develop." I never heard
from Joe again, despite his coming to England on several occasions. It
was a terrible blow. I'd thought that he had a bit more respect for me
than that. After having got Joey back in, I was forced out, and never
included again.
Int: Tell us your impression of Dan Matovina's book. Were you accurately
quoted and portrayed?
BJ: I was impressed. I had been on tenterhooks waiting for that book.
Reading it and re-living some of that stuff was uncomfortable, but
ultimately satisfying. I found it to be extremely thorough and complete.
I was also pleased that there was not the sensationalism that some
biographies rely on. I know, for my part, that all my stuff was
accurately reported - and I don't think that anyone could have made a
better job of it.
Int: Why do you feel it was an important book to come out?
BJ: Well, things emerged in the book - details which people may not have
been aware of. The Badfinger story is a complex one - a myriad of peaks
and troughs. It could easily be portrayed as two-dimensional and
simplistic - a kind of Rock 'n' Roll cliche. I think the book succeeded
in telling not only the story, but studying the personalities involved,
and the breakdown in relationships. 'Cause ultimately, it was the
gradual loss of faith in human nature that really caused Peter and
Tommy's deaths.
Int: Did Dan capture what Tom Evans was really like, and the way in
which he interacted with Joey?
BJ: Tommy could be warm/remote, extrovert/introvert, direct/obtuse etc.,
all in the same evening!! I think that came through, yes. As for him and
Joey, from what Tom said, I believe so.
Int: Describe how you knew that Joey was calling any of yours and Tom's
Badfinger gigs and asking promoters to cancel them.
BJ: Tommy said that he had gathered from the agents that gigs for us
(Tom, Mike and me) were being jeopardised - cancelled, even. Joey was
running his own Badfinger and we were working around the same areas. It
was confusing to the promoters. We had asked Joey if he would like to
join up with us some months before, but he wasn't interested. When Tommy
and I would discuss stuff, he told me how angry and betrayed he felt
that Joey would ring people up (Bent Back Records, for example) and thus
threaten our tours. There's no doubt that this did have a detrimental
effect on our work.
Int: Is it your impression that Dan tried to get at the true facts
involving Badfinger?
BJ: When he first approached me about the idea of the book, Dan said
then that his ethic was to be honest and even-handed. Everyone, bar
none, was to be asked to contribute, to ensure completeness and
accuracy. Friends/family of Pete and Tom whom I have kept in touch with
have expressed their satisfaction. The fact that he's a third party
actually works to the benefit of the book - an objective view is better,
as this means there is no bias.
Int: Describe your feelings about working on Pete's lost demos. How do
you feel about Dan Matovina putting together such a project?
BJ: This project is just one of a number of things that Dan Matovina has
organised, to lift the Badfinger profile. Of course, I was proud to be
involved and I hope that I brought something to the finished product. I
took the minimalist approach and underplayed, if anything. It was
tempting to add new ideas, but we agreed that it was better to retain
the integrity of the originals. Pete did have some great stuff, so it
seems daft not to get it out there. Also, those albums show some
different sides of Pete that people might not normally associate with
Badfinger. Much of it is very autobiographical of course, so it helps to
tell the story.
Int: How did you feel about getting "Won't Forget You" out with the book
CD?
BJ: Well, "Won't Forget You" was/is a very important song to me, and
this version featured Tommy singing the two-part with me, and a string
arrangement. I added this after his death. We had talked about having
some good string parts at the time, but it didn't happen. I was pleased
with this arrangement, which I think enhances the mood of the track -
brings it closer to my original idea. Yes, it was good to get it out and
let people hear it
Int: Might you re-record that song some day?
BJ: I still have hopes for that number - it's got a commercial thing
about it, a universal lyric. Yeah, I might do it again, but I also think
that it has the potential to be covered by someone else and have some
success.
Int: What have you been doing since 1985?
BJ: Since 1985? Always playing and writing. Also, I was asked to invent
a contemporary composition couse for the education authority here, so I
did that too. Mainly though, I've been bringing my kids up. I think it's
the most difficult but important thing that you can do. It's another
level of development, really. You learn to be unselfish (- if you're
doing it right). Of course, I'm still fitting my things in too. I was
asked to join the Fortunes a few years ago, so I'm still gigging.
Int: What are your future musical plans?
BJ: Well it's funny you should ask that at this time. I've been
researching equipment, and have just ordered some new recording gear -
completely upgrading my old stuff. My plan is to get some of my stuff
recorded properly - something I've never really done. I feel I've got
some good material that might surprise one or two people. I hope to make
some noise, so listen out for me.
End Of Part 2
