Interview conducted September 26, 1998 by Sean

Mike Gibbins Interview conducted September 26, 1998 by Sean

The samples on this page are being offered as .mp3 files.

The format of this interview is as follows:

*              My questions and comments are in this smaller print

HEAR IT HERE. [These are links to audio files]*MAY TAKE FROM 15 TO 60 SECONDS TO LOAD EACH VOICE CLIP

Mike's Answer featured here in the larger print. [Bracketed text was not spoken, but there to explain what is being referenced or an event (like laughter)]

*              How did Ron Griffiths get around to participating in [your new] recordings?

Well he came to visit me from England. And he stayed with me two weeks. And it was the obvious thing to do, wasn't it?

*              What do you think of Ron's singing?

I think he rules, man, I mean, you got it, you don't usually lose it, and he didn't.

*              What about his bass playing?

Well, he's not lost that, he's still doing that. He played on one track.

*              Has Ron actually changed from the past? Has he gotten any better as a singer or a player.

Well, it's the same. Its just the same. It sounds like him. He was one of the better singers in the band. It just works.

*              Do you think Badfinger with Ron Griffiths would have been as successful as the band that we ended up with?

HEAR IT HERE
I would think more so. I would think more so. The original band, as you know was the Iveys, and, of course Ron played on Come And Get It. He was in Badfinger. That lineup would have gone a lot further, I think. But, you know, things don't turn out the way you want 'em to always, you know?

*              What's going to be the big difference between this CD and "A Place In Time?"

The new one? Its not as dark. Its going to be lot more positive, and a little bit more stripped down than the other one

*              I always perceived you as being kind of the one that would have pushed Badfinger in different directions. You musically fit in because of your skill, but with like the writing it seemed you would have brought different elements into the band.

HEAR IT HERE
It was getting there when we did "Wish You Were Here." I had like two and one half songs on that one. And we were always breaking some new ground, yeah. But that's when it all fell to pieces, with the management and everything, and the money. Yeah, it would have gone a little more bizarre, yeah.

*              Were you the one that instigated most of that, or did everybody pretty much experiment?

Yeah, we did a lot of drugs, [laughs], not really, we didn't really... Everybody put their thinking cap on, but I happened to get a little bit more input because of the circumstances, because people get dry spells writing. I was on a roll at the time. They dumped a few more of mine on.

*              Rick Warsing [guitarist on A Place In Time], how did he come about?

I've only known him a couple of years. But of all the people I've played with, he can handle just about anything on the guitar.

*              He seems to do a nice job. And regarding Layaway, which is my favorite track, he dropped right into the genre. And on other tracks he was right there, too.

He's even a lot better than that. I've got a lot better sound going now. I've learned how to use this stuff. [the studio gear]

*              Tell me about Picture Of You.

That's a song I wrote about my son when he was about fifteen. Like over the seas. He's twenty-six now. In fact he's in my studio all the time. I can't get in there. I've been playing drums with him and he's kicking my ass with his heavy-metal.

*              Layaway?

That's a song about Peter Ham. Listen to the lyrics and that will come together in your head.

*              How long has that song been around?

About three or four years. I wrote about Pete, because the lyrics, it just meant a lot to me. That was a keeper.

*              Obviously with the new album its going to be poppier and brighter. With the first on, were you using it as a psychologist on tape???

Well, the first one, A Place In Time, is definitely that, all the shit in my head. It's been floating around in there for a long time.

*              Does the opening track [Sue Me] have anything to do with that.

Sue Me? Yeah that's an open message to Joey Molland. Because he's suing everybody right now.

*              We hear. Any particular incident that Molland is suing for.

HEAR IT HERE
Yeah, well, that album that he took them tapes ["Day After Day Live" on Rykodisc] In fact, when he left the band, before we did the Head First album, he spirited them out of the house, and they were the only live tapes we ever had of the band. And he took it upon himself to do a deal and collect money up front and he didn't tell anybody he had any money, and then when we took it back off of him, through our accountants, he sued. [laughs] Joey's been a naughty boy, you can quote me on that. He's currently suing the Ham estate, the Evans estate, myself, and Bill Collins our manager. Joey's nothing but bad news to me, you can quote me on that, too.

*              Is the lawsuit close to resolution?

No, he's dragging it on. He's costing everybody thousands of dollars. And in fact it's outweighing everything else. It's just ridiculous. But that's the way he is.

*              Is this in American courts?

No, it's in England.

*              Do you think American courts would treat it differently?

Right now, It would have been over by now. The British take their time over it. They take your money. It's got to go through the right channels.

*              It almost sounds frivolous.

Put it this way, over here it would have been done for abuse of process by now. But the English lawyers they'll take your money and they'll string it along forever. We're not giving in on him because its principal as well. In fact, I would have saved money by just giving him what he wanted and letting him get away with it, but we will not do that. I'll spend three times as much, just for the principal.

*              Is that getting to be more and more the opinion that now it's becoming an issue of principal more than just worth fighting ?

HEAR IT HERE
If somebody sues you, in fact, we should have been suing him, for doing that in the first place without consulting everybody else and then taking the money, right? You know what I'm saying? He didn't offer the money. All the money he made off that album should have gone to one source to be divided between the members, but he took it upon himself to put it in his little heavenly bank account. Basically he hid it from everybody. So now he's suing for producers fees and the costs of making the album, which is already made, Capiched. [laughs] He mastered all his parts and enhanced his own stuff and what the hell whatever he did to it, and he said it cost over twenty grand. Bullshit. He wants that money. And he wants producers fees and he wants co-producers.. . He's out of his mind.

*              And after all that what do you think of the quality of that disc.

It sucks. Have you heard the drums on that? He put a disco beat drum on the snare drum and that's all you can hear.

*              You probably would have been better off being consulted first.

Exactly. But Joey's the man. He knows best. You know what I mean?

*              Being that he knows best, is that why he put all his songs up at the front of the CD?

Take a look at a copy of his Badfinger album featuring Joey Molland, the greatest hits... Embarrassing.

*              What about the follow-up reissue of the same album, where they put a picture of the whole original band on there?

What do you think of that then? Another one of Joey's scams, huh?

*              In cases like that, do you guys own your own images? Could you say "don't use this."

HEAR IT HERE
Of course I could, but how much litigation have I got to go through to get his ass off me. Listen Joey Molland, quote, right, is a nasty piece of work. He's living off the bones of Badfinger. Right? He never wrote one hit song in the band. You know what I mean. Pete Ham was the talent in the band, and he got lucky. And he's been playing Badfinger now for how many years? He's out on the road with it. He's putting albums out. All he's done is damage the image of the band.

*              One of his [Joey's] people claims that: "We have a member, Mark Healey, who has been in the band longer than Pete."

Oh,   he's been in the band longer than Pete Ham? Mark Healey has been in the band longer than Pete Ham! Mark Healey's been in the band longer than Pete Ham? Oh, cool. [laughs] Somebody's tripping.

*              So you think Joey touring as Badfinger is bad for the band?

Well, I think he's just milking it because that's all he can do. That's his claim to fame and he's using it. I'm sure I wouldn't do that. It wouldn't be kosher, would it?

*              Well, the drummer form the Byrds tours as them...

[laughs] Well, good for him, I wouldn't do it.

*              That's right, there's ethics involved there.

Yeah, remember that word?

*              Seems like Joey doesn't.

Joey's got no ethic whatsoever.

*              Do you think, and I got this impression from the book, is that Joey really changed when Kathie came around?

HEAR IT HERE
Oh yeah, well, she's the antichrist, you can quote me on that.

*              Technically then, he shouldn't be part of the songwriting credit and royalty and all that stuff.

No, he won't see a penny off that one. Much to his dismay. Maybe he wouldn't let us use the name. Maybe Mark Healey will sue me. [laughs]

*              Now with the "Head First" reissue, was it your idea?

Well, its been sitting around for a long time. Warner Brothers could lay claim to it, but then again, they never paid us for none of it. We've done some research into it, and we are getting a green light in all areas so get it out there... I've got a master copy tape of most of the tunes. The mixes in the Record Plant in L.A. are all tinnied and compressed as shit. The one that was done in London sounds great.

*              What do you think of the songs?

I think there are some real good ones. Lay Me Down I like that one.

*              What about your tracks? Moonshine that's a kicker.

That was done under duress, lots of stress. We didn't have any money at the time, especially we weren't getting paid for it.

*              Did you know at the time that this was a Polley tactic to get money.

Oh yeah, we knew that, but we had no choice but to come up with the goods. Because there was nothing else going on.

*              In that era with Bob Jackson in it. What did you think of his abilities? Was he a part of Badfinger?

We went on the road with him extensively with him and everything, we toured with the Man band in England and Wales.

*              Did he fit in?

HEAR IT HERE
Oh yeah, he fit in great. He fit in real good. He would have been one of the prolific writers, yeah.

*              Your drumming ability, it's exceptional, do you feel proud of the work you've done.

It's okay, but its nowhere near my capacity because producers tell you not to do this, not to do that. I can fuse if I want to. I can play jazz rock and all that. I keep it stripped own. Even on my new stuff. Its very basic, like less is more.

*              Do you have an out of left field [drum] influences, like a Buddy Rich or a Gene Krupa.

One of my first influences was Sandy Nelson, Remember him, teen beat. He did drum solos, he made albums of drum solos, pre Wipe-Out. That was one of my first influences. I've listened to all kinds of music. From Chick Corea, to McLaughlin, Billy Cobham, Steve Gadd, Terry Bozzio - Zappa's guy, but for my kind of writing and music, its the old Beatle-beat, the Stones, that's what fits most.

*              In terms of influences, Badfinger seems to have influenced a lot of the new popster bands and Brit pop, or whatever you want to call it. Any well-known musicians acknowledge the band?

Well there's that tribute to Badfinger. Even one of King Crimson did a track, Adrian Belew, Aimee Mann. I think Lillian Axe did No Matter What. That was bizarre. Mariah Carey did Without You.

*              She took the Nilsson-riff, does that bother you that she didn't incorporate something a little more original?

HEAR IT HERE
Yeah, but don't forget she's that kind of singer. It worked for her and it couldn't have been that bad because it was number one, you know? I mean if Perry Como did it he would have done it his way. It's been recorded five or six hundred times by different artists, you know Andy Williams, Perry Como, Frank Sinatra. Frank Sinatra used to sing it in his set. And he's the only guy that actually acknowledged Pete Ham wrote it. My wife went to his concert, it must have been like twenty years ago, and he said, "This next one's from the late great Pete Ham." Cause everybody thinks Nilsson wrote it. And he didn't, he said, "this is from the late great Pete Ham." So that was pretty cool.

*              We know you played with Bonnie Tyler. Did anybody else approach you to play or join?

I kind of left the business for awhile. and just concentrated on having a good time back in Wales, 'cause we were penniless after all that went down and I just played local for awhile. I did that It's A Heartache with Bonnie Tyler because she's from Wales, she's from my hometown and we toured Germany, that album went triple platinum for her, so did the single. And then I did some session work with a guy named Digby Richards. He's an Australian country singer. I did an album with Dave Tipton, Kicking Mule, odds-and-sods.

*              Do you like playing live?

I'm kind of over it actually. Every once in awhile you get the bug. I've got the bug right now, but it's who you play with. I get tired of taking the bullshit on the road. It gets old. That doesn't mean to say I won't be playing again.

*              Most of the accounts of people say that Pete was just the greatest happiest jovial guy, but then there's stories of him getting pissed off, like in live shows where he would get pissed off and kick pianos.

Yeah, you know, he's an artist. It would happen. I know when we did the "Head First" album he smashed a Martin over a Steinway because he couldn't get it in tune... A thousand pound guitar at the time.

*              There's also stories of Joey pissing him off onstage. Was that frequent or just a one-time story thing.

HEAR IT HERE
No, they'd fight here and there. Joey was the, he liked to groove some, but Pete was the guy with the melody. He could play rings around Joey any day on the guitar, because he had jazz upbringing and all that, but yeah, they used to fight continually.

*              Was it musical or is it just personality?

A bit of both, a bit of both.

*              There was point that Pete quit the band because of Kathie?

HEAR IT HERE
Yeah, that's correct. She started, she was trying to manage the band and she was giving people advice and she was making phone calls and she's actually trying to do deals. She's doing that to this day. So let's not bash 'em anymore. Leave the antichrist to sleep.

*              It sounds like you had read bits of the [Without You] book.

I did read bits of it, but I lost interest after awhile because he [Dan Matovina] gets into the money at the end.

*              Do you think the promised book by the Mollands will be truthful and will it be honest?

HEAR IT HERE
They smoke too much dope. They'll never get it together. Swear to god. What's it going to be - a rebuttal? It's going to be a rebuttal, right? I can't see it myself. I hope they get it together, be interesting reading, wouldn't it?. It will probably go something like this: Joey Molland founded Badfinger and wrote all the hit songs and they co-wrote Without You between them, and everybody else is a piece of shit. That's probably how their book will go.

*              Do you keep in touch with any of the old producers?

HEAR IT HERE
I ran into Todd... When he worked with us, I thought he was superb. He did everything fast, he put things together quick. If I'm in the studio I can't stand to be taking like a half-hour over a bass drum sound. He went in there and just did it, you know with minimum of fuss. I got on with him pretty well. He never got the credit he deserved for that album. George got all the credit.

*              Was that an accident or political move?

I don't know, but I know to this day he's pretty angry about that. He's angry at George Harrison. He calls him "goody-two-shoes." [laughs] But he did a lot of work on that album and didn't get all the credit that he deserved.

*              So he went in and did stuff like "Day After Day" and re-worked it?

HEAR IT HERE
George got some really bad drum sounds and stuff like that; so we did rub a lot of stuff and re-did it. If you listen to Day After Day, the drums are sounding pretty good, and they weren't like that. The original one wasn't as good as that. He just revamped a lot of stuff. He banged a few coke bottles on the side and all that. I think he did a great job.

*              With Ron being back in the picture it brought up some thoughts and memories of how Joey kept on claiming that he didn't get any of Ron's money.

Well, I'm glad you brought that up because there's a line in one of the songs that mentions that. I can quote you actually, the line in the song Ron did with me. It says:

"Since you rolled me over for a piece of my pie,

I hear you swallow anyway."

Pretty good, huh. Anyway, that's on tape. And coming from Ron, that's to the point.

*              Ron said he had signed papers, but he's never seen the papers since.

Which papers?

*              Signing everything over to Badfinger?

HEAR IT HERE
I think he got a couple of thousand pounds and he bought himself a house. And what happened was, anything that he was contracted to, everybody had the same deal, whoever came in the band would assume that thing, so when Joey joined in he just took over his share of the doodle, and so [Ron] just got bought out. So Joey got lucky. Cause Joey came in to a going concern. We already had a hit record. We were already in the charts. We were already on Apple. And he just walked right into a going concern. Oh, I forgot, Joey did put the Iveys together, didn't he? That's right. He and his wife.

*              That whole [Badfinger] video, [Joey] was describing how things started, which I thought was really odd.

And he got the name wrong, too. Where he said Ron Griffiths becomes Dai Griffiths. I brought that to their attention, but they couldn't change it for some reason.

*              How did you feel about that video?

Well, it was alright. The guys worked their ass off on it, didn't they?. But I thought it was a little bit spooky. Nothing against Kathie Molland, but I don't see why she should have even been on it even, you know? I mean everybody was married, right?. Well, put 'em all on, you know what I mean?

*              There seemed to be a lot of people missing from that?

Yeah, but there it is again, the antichrist…

*              Have you ever thought of going after Stan Polley in an American court.

No, it's not even worth it. The stress wouldn't be worth it. I'm already in litigation now. And by one of my so-called friends. So work it out. It's added aggravation. You know I'm supposed to be sitting down at the piano and having a good time, but I can't. I gotta be reading lawyers notes. All over some egotistical guitar player. It's nothing but a mess. No good can come out of it, for him or us. It's one of those spiteful things... I put Badfinger behind me a long time ago. I went out with Tommy for awhile and I went out with Joey for awhile and I went "wait a minute, this is not the real thing." The band was the band and that was it. After that, it's like its not the same. That's why I did my own thing. I'm just writing and recording, doing my own thing. I'm already getting paid for Badfinger, we get residuals still. I don't need to be out there and just pick at the bones. Joey played in a local bar not long ago. I was in Amsterdam at the time. But like twelve people turned up. He didn't even do a whole set. He was playing guitar licks and taking his two thousand dollars and leaving... Can you see how tacky it looks? I think its tacky. It's supposed to be the legendary Badfinger, remember.

*              But he's the "keeper of the flame," according to Kathie ...

HEAR IT HERE
Put it this way, if there are any young people out there, like in their teens or twenties, that buys records, and they go, and all the people think, "yeah check this Badfinger out, man" and if they actually go see a show, or buy one of his albums, and go, "This sucks." And they're going to just put a lid on Badfinger forever, as opposed to seeing an old clip of the old band in their prime, or buying one of their old albums and going "Yeah, this is okay," but no, they're going to listen to him first. I had guy come up to me in a bar with Joey's album, with my face on it, the one you were talking about. Wanted me to sign it because he thought I played drums on it. It's a fuckin' machine. He thought I played on it. I was embarrassed, you know what I mean?

*              What did you tell him?

I told him to burn it.

*              It's really sad, because from a fan's perspective, its like "why can't everybody be friends and go on.."

HEAR IT HERE
I mean when Tommy was alive, I was on the road with Tommy, and Joey even came to one of our concerts, and its bizarre, 'cause they couldn't work together either, you know, after they did their thing together in L.A, with "Airwaves" and all that. They were fighting amongst themselves. There was no way. We could have had the full band, the three of us, but there was no way it would happen. You know people change. Everyone wanted to be the leader of the band and have all the say and all the rest of it. You can't con a con man. It just wouldn't happen. Badfinger was good band. And we made some good music. And now its over. It's not like a band that's a current band that's going to try and make more music. It won't happen. What I'm doing is, I'm not using the name. It's just me. I think I'll call the next album, "Badfinger, formerly Mike Gibbins" [laughs].

*              The band has brought a lot of enjoyment to me personally and it taught a lot of lessons. For all the hell you've gone through you've probably saved hundreds of other people...

HEAR IT HERE
I mean the book says a "Tragic Story of..." but people don't realize, it was mostly good times, you know. It was. Most of it was good. We didn't fight all the time. We were like best of friends and all the rest of it. Otherwise we wouldn't have been able to make that music. We were an up-and-coming, functioning, well-adjusted bunch of people. And most of it was good. You can't foresee people committing suicide and getting ripped off. We weren't thinking that. We were on a major roll. Most of the memories are good memories. And the music speaks for itself. Leave it there.

I would like to personally thank Mike for his time, easy going conversation, many laughs and insight. T o allow me to take a look into his mind on quite a few things. The total interview took over an hour in tim e and Mike's ear has recovered nicely since then.

sean